Women in Ministry

INTRODUCTION

Good morning! My name is David Sorn, and I’m the Lead Pastor here at Renovation Church.

As a church, we are teaching verse-by-verse through the Letter of 1 Timothy in the Bible, which is a tough book

And today, we have come to its hardest passage.

Paul is going to speak on the topic of women in ministry, or should women be pastors and elders?

And if your blood pressure just went up, let me say a couple of things before we dive into it.

What we’re about to read is God’s Word.

It is given for our good. And it is good.

We have to keep that in mind at all times.

But, to many of us, if not most of us, this is going to sound a bit jarring to our ears.

In part because God’s Word intersects with every different culture in challenging ways.

For example, when the missionaries first brought the gospel to Papua New Guinea, the people there hated Jesus’ teaching about “turning the other cheek”

It was the antithesis of their cultural beliefs about revenge and retribution.

But the missionaries and pastors bravely, yet gently, taught it anyway because it’s what the Bible said.

And for us today’s subject challenges some modern American cultural values.

Another reason that today’s subject is so difficult is the fact that there has been SO little teaching on this 1 Timothy passage and subject over the last 30-40 years.

If you’re under 35, you may never have even heard a message on this in your entire life.

And yet, almost everyone seems to still have an opinion on it.

But they’ve perhaps never studied it.

And if this passage has been taught, sometimes it’s been taken too far, and abused, and has caused hurt

And then lastly (before we get to the passage, I also think what makes this topic so difficult is that too many of us pre-decide what we want the Bible to say, and then we’ll do whatever we can to bend the Bible to our preference.

So, this morning, I’m just going to do what I always do...every single Sunday.

And we’re going to open the Bible, read the Scripture, and I’m going to do my best to teach you what it says.

Irrespective of what I want it to say…or what I think you want me to say…

I’ll just do my best to explain what is in front of me.

And my prayer is that you are open to what God’s Word has to say to you

THE PASSAGE & THAT TRICKY VERSE 15

Okay, you ready to take a look at this?

1 Timothy 2:11-15

Page 811

We’re going to have to dive in even deeper than we normally do today.

This will be a deep message that might make your head hurt a little, but that’s okay once in a while!

(1 Timothy 2:11-15) – NIV

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

(Women in Ministry)

Okay, keep this open, we’re actually going to start with that last verse, verse 15 and get that out of the way.

It actually is one of the most puzzling verses in the entire Bible

Most scholars actually just scratch their head at it.

Paul certainly isn’t that women can go to heaven if they have babies

That would go against half the Bible!

So what in the world is he saying here?

I’ve literally read about 12 different interpretations of this verse, and honestly none of them are very compelling.

Can I just say, “I don’t know?”

Some say Paul is NOT talking about the salvation of the soul, but merely making a general statement that many women (not all) will find deep purpose and meaning in their children.

While others think it’s a verse about Mary, the mother of Jesus, brought salvation (the messiah) through childbirth

Listen, there are a handful of verses in the Bible where you might just be better off saying, “I’ll…just ask when I get to heaven,” and this may be one of them 😊

VERSE 11

Okay, let’s get to the meat of our topic. Go back to verse 11. We’ll take this one verse at a time because we want to do this methodically and carefully.

(1 Timothy 2:11) - NIV

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.

I know that is hard to read in many cases, but let me start by saying that it was actually revolutionary and positive to the original readers.

Paul is saying that women should learn.

And in the ancient world, most women were denied education.

Now, I think part of the challenge of this passage is that we don’t have a good English word for the Greek word translated quietness. .

In fact that exact same Greek Word was translated as “peaceful” just earlier in the chapter, in verse 2.

In Acts 21 that same word is translated as to “stop arguing and debating”

So we’re not talking about literal, audible silence here.

And we know that because several other places in the NT church women are talking, praying, prophesying even.

But the idea of the text is that the woman is coming in submission (she’s coming under) the male leader of the church.

VERSE 12

Verses 12 & 13 now

(1 Timothy 2:12-13) - NIV

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

What Paul is saying here, and in the broader context of this part of 1 Timothy, is that the work of an elder, or pastor or overseer, (those 3 words are actually interchangeable words in the NT…they mean the same thing)…

…that work is to be done by men.

He is not permitting women to do the public teaching of doctrine to the overall church, or to have the main position of spiritual authority in the church.

Let me tell you what Paul is not saying.

He’s not saying that women can’t lead in the workplace (this is a passage about the main spiritual authority in the church)…

He’s not saying that women can’t lead or teach in other places in the church (and we’ll get to that later)

Context really matters here.

If we keep reading into the very next verses (which is chapter 3), we’ll see that immediately after our passage, Paul starts listing the qualifications of elders.

These are the people who will lead the church in teaching and authority.

In fact, look at chapter 3, verses 1 & 2

(1 Timothy 3:1-2a) – NIV

Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife

We see it here already, but the whole chapter shows that these elders are to be men.

If you read Titus chapter 1, you see basically the same list where Paul again explicitly tells us that elders/pastors should be men.

Now, let me pause for a moment because lots of times when people hear this, the reason they don’t like it is because we assume that if people have different roles, they can’t be equal.

But that’s not true.

In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul says this:

(1 Corinthians 11:3) – NIV

But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Some of us bristle against the idea of men spiritually leading women…

But look at what else Paul says:

He says the head of Christ is God.

The head (the leader) of Jesus the Son, is God the Father.

Now, let me ask you:

Is Jesus the Son inferior in value to God the Father?

No way.

In fact, it’s literally heresy to say Jesus the Son is inferior to God the Father just because they don’t have the same role and function!

And in the same way, men & women are equal in value, but God has different roles for them to play

(Women in Ministry)

And while this passage may seem hard, one of the things that is important to understand is that it’s consistent with the rest of the Bible.

Even in the Old Testament, women were not priests…even though the other pagan nations around them often had female priests.

Jesus could have picked women disciples, but He didn’t.

And listen, Jesus did whatever was right…no matter the opposition.

He broke about every religious & cultural norm in the book…

And yet He picked 12 men.

Also, gender roles in the church cannot be divorced from passages about gender roles in marriage. They are connected!

We read in the Bible that the man is to be the spiritual leader of his family

That’s in 1 Corinthians 11, 1 Peter 3, Titus 2, Ephesians 5, & Colossians 3.

(Colossians/Ephesians Headship Messages)

We’ve taught through both of the Ephesians and Colossians passages on this just in the last 2 years if you want to listen to that as a resource.

But the broader point is this: It would be odd if the Bible in 5 different passages stressed that the man is to be the spiritual leader of the family, but then turned around to God’s family (the church!), and said that gender is irrelevant.

Now, there are two common theological viewpoints on this topic:

The first is the one we’ve already been talking about:

Complementarianism: Men & Women are equal in value, but they have different and complementary roles to play.

Egalitarianism: Men & Women are equal in value, and there is no limit or difference between roles.

Before we go any further, let me first say that today’s topic as a whole, is not a primary issue in Christianity.

We’re not talking about whether or not Jesus is God, or if the Bible is true, or if Jesus is the only way to Salvation!

Today’s topic is a secondary issue.

In Renovation U we teach through the paradigm of concentric circles, and we say that there are beliefs we die for, beliefs we would defend, and beliefs we just discuss for fun.

This is not a “to die for category” of Christianity

It’s in the middle.

And churches have all sorts of different beliefs on those middle issues about baptism, Calvinism, spiritual gifts, or women in ministry.

I have good friends, in ministry even, that disagree with what I’m saying today.

They would call themselves egalitarians.

And even though I disagree with them, I can respect their position, IF they are still coming at it from a position where they believe the Bible is still the Word of God.

That part is very key.

But let me tell you why our church believes what we believe, and why we don’t ultimately think Egalitarianism has a strong enough Biblical foundation.

Egalitarians draw their conclusions from 3 main areas:

#1: Creation & the Fall in Genesis

#2: Galatians 3:28

#3: Random women listed in the NT

Egalitarians say that women can be the primary spiritual leader, but the reason that hasn’t been the case for much of church history is a result of the fall of humankind (Adam & Eve’s sin in the garden), which resulted in men consistently leading…and the husband even ruling over the wife (Gen 3:16).

But where that argument falls short is that God created our gender differences BEFORE the fall.

And certainly the Fall has made our relationships often strained and quite difficult.

But the differences in our gender were God-ordained BEFORE the Fall, which means they still apply.

Look at all that happens before Adam & Eve sinned

Differences in the Creation:

#1: Adam is made first

#2: Eve is made for Adam

#3: Adam names Eve

#4: Adam, not Eve, is given commands from God that He must relay to Eve

And these are all before the Fall.

Egalitarians draw their conclusions from 3 main areas:

#1: Creation & the Fall in Genesis

#2: Galatians 3:28

#3: Random women listed in the NT

This is a very important (it is the key verse) for Egalitarians, those who feel that women can be Lead Pastors and elders.

Let’s take a look at that now.

(Galatians 3:28) – NIV

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

But if you read the context (the rest of Galatians 3), it becomes quickly apparent that Paul is simply stating that no matter who you are (gentile, jew, male or female), we can all be equally justified and saved by Christ.

He’s not talking at all in Galatians 3 about what our roles should be in the church

And even if for some reason Paul was alluding to that in some secret, subliminal way, you still have to look at the rest of the body of evidence in the Bible!

Too often I think people find a verse in the Bible and say, “HA! See! That settles it! This overrides everything!

For example, I have a lot of friends who are Charismatic Christians, and they do this too.

They say, “See, the Bible says we all have the Spirit now, so everyone can be a pastor!”

But that’s not how we do Bible interpretation.

We have to study how all the passages work together.

We can’t find 1 verse and then throw out 1 Timothy 2.

It’s ALL God’s Word, and we have to make it ALL work together.

Egalitarians draw their conclusions from 3 main areas:

#1: Creation & the Fall in Genesis

#2: Galatians 3:28

#3: Random women listed in the NT

And then thirdly, egalitarians will often mention a smattering of random women in the NT whom Paul mentions had a house church meet in their house, or were fellow Christian workers with Paul

But plenty of women have House Churches that meet in their house (even in this church), and you are fellow workers (you serve somewhere in this church), and just because those things are true of you…that doesn’t mean that you hold the title of pastor.

So I think the leap here that egalitarians are trying to make is just too great.

We gotta move on to verse 13 here 😊, but if you have more questions on some of these things, while I wish I had 3 hours to talk on this, I don’t.

But I want to point you to a YouTube teaching series

Mike Winger YouTube Series

Women in Ministry

I don’t usually do this, but this series is one of the most scholarly and yet accessible things I’ve ever watched.

It’s Pastor & Teacher Mike Winger’s YouTube Series on Women in Ministry, and it is literally over 40 hours of content just on this subject.

So if you have more questions, he has answers!

VERSE 13

All right, let’s look to deeper into verse 13 now

(1 Timothy 2:13) – NIV

13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

(Women in Ministry)

Okay, this is Paul’s reasoning for what he’s already said in verses 11 & 12 about the “teaching & spiritual authority” role being reserved for men.

Notice how verse 13 starts with the word “For”

And Paul is saying the reason men should be elders is because they were formed first.

Now notice, this is not a cultural argument, it’s not contextual argument, this is a theological argument!

Because often when people have a different take on this 1 Timothy passage, they’ll say:

“The reason Paul didn’t want women to speak was because the women were yelling across the aisle to their husbands in Timothy’s church”

Or “The reason Paul didn’t want women to be the main spiritual leader & teacher was because the women of that time were uneducated”

But listen, most of Jesus’ disciples were uneducated.

Ultimately, Paul’s reason for this teaching is not a unique or cultural situation!

So we don’t need to (in fact we shouldn’t) fill in the blanks here with speculation because Paul already gave us the reason:

He says in verse 13: “FOR” (the reason I’m teaching this) is because of the Created Order. Adam was formed first.

And that reason does not change with time or culture.

Let me give you some important parallels that will bring out how this is over every culture

When Jesus argued in Matthew 19 that men & women should not divorce, he argued from the Creation.

He said “at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh”

When Paul argued against same sex relationships in Romans 1, he also argues from the Creation, from nature, and how we were made.

And so similarly, in our passage on pastors, Paul appeals to Creation, to the order and manner in which we were uniquely made, which means this is a passage binding for all cultures and all time.

I’ve mentioned that I don’t feel that Egalitarianism has a strong enough Biblical foundation…

…but Egalitarianism also faces this massive task of attempting to give comeback answers to the overwhelming Biblical support FOR gender role differences that are listed in the Bible…and often connected to strong theological concepts, like the Created Order.

This often reminds me of the debates people have regarding the Bible’s view of sexuality.

In that debate, if someone attempts to try and say the Bible is pro-same-sex relationships, they have to literally go through each of the 7 or so verses on the topic, and with each one, say, “Well, what Paul actually meant was something different.”

And I feel like I have to do that here if you want me to say that our two genders are the same and have no difference in their roles, and any gender can have the role of elder/pastor.

Then I have to go through all 5 passages about gender roles in the home, and another 6 or so passages about gender roles in the church.

And in all 11 passages then…I have to say, “Nope, what it actually means (the Greek says), what it actually means (the culture at their time), what it actually means (if you study the history)”

And listen, I’m okay doing that once, maybe twice.

Sometimes a Greek word does really make a difference in interpretation…

…and sometimes there’s some sort of cultural/historical nugget that really matters!

But if you’re asking me to say, “’What it actually means is’ 11 times, as a Bible Teacher, I just can’t do that”

If we’re doing that, we’re trying to bend the Bible to fit our culture.

VERSE 14

Okay, we learn more about this important Created Order in verse 14, let’s take a look:

(1 Timothy 2:14) - NIV

14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

What is Paul talking about?

He’s referencing Genesis 3 again where Eve ate of the forbidden fruit.

The devil tricked her to eat it, telling her she could become like God, and she fell for it.

And then gave it to Adam, and he ate it.

So Adam punted on his role of spiritual leader, Eve steps in the vacuum, and they both sin.

Now, we need to be careful with this because sometimes people take this verse, and even this broader passage, too far.

And they say, “See, women are always more gullible and easily deceived”

That’s not what this is saying.

If you think about it, there are areas that women are more easily deceived, and there are areas that men are more easily deceived.

Men are more likely to fall for the sin of gambling for instance.

They think, “I know they say ‘that nobody beats the odds or the house,’ but they don’t know me!!”

Men are six times more likely to be arrested for drug abuse.

Ten times more likely to be arrested for drunkenness.

And on and on.

The main point of verse 14 is not that women are more likely to be deceived, but that when the order of how God ordained spiritual leadership gets backwards, it brings damage and pain.

I’ve heard it said that men & women are both more vulnerable to error and sin when they forsake the order that God intended.

So what Paul is saying is that this role reversal of Genesis 3 brought such significant consequences on the human race, and so that role reversal should not be repeated in the family or the church family.

There is just something about men spiritually leading that is powerful and effective (because of how God uniquely & intentionally created us as men & women). We’re different!!

APPLICATION

(Women in Ministry)

So what does this all mean then if you are a woman, and you do want to be involved in ministry, particularly here at Renovation Church?

I think it’s very important to understand that the Bible is only talking about the Pastor/Elder role being reserved for men.

In our church, we would be what you would call, a “soft” or “moderate complementarian” church.

We are complementarian on the pastor/elder role because we think that is the clear teaching of Scripture (and we want to be obedient to that), but we don’t carry it anywhere beyond that…like some churches do.

So practically what does that mean here?

It means that if I were to die tomorrow, that a man would be chosen to be the next Lead Pastor of Renovation Church

It means that we would only hire a male for any sort of Pastor role that is teaching doctrine and the Bible to the whole church.

It also means that all of our elders are men, because that’s what the Bible explicitly commands in 1 Timothy 3 & Titus 1.

And in our church, our elders are our House Leaders.

Often in churches, Elders are board members.

But really, elders in the Bible are spiritual leaders who shepherd the flock, and we think that is our house leaders.

Our board, which mostly writes policy and is advisory, can actually have women on it, and it does.

They are not the Spiritual Pastors and elders of the church.

The Bible itself clearly says that women can have lots of other roles in ministry

Titus 2 tells us they can lead and teach other women, and also youth, and children.

Which is why we allow and have female children’s and youth pastors

1 Corinthians 11 & 14 shows women praying in church services and even prophesying in church services (that’s a different topic!).

But that is why we have female worship leaders along with male worship leaders

On missions trips, we will hand women the microphone to share the gospel with crowds gathered on the street…because that’s evangelism…it’s not pastoring a church from a position of authority.

Acts 18 tells us that Priscilla (along with her husband, Aquila) pulled aside the preacher Apollos and Priscilla helped explain the way of God more accurately to him

So women should be talking often about God, and Scripture, and shouldn’t ever feel like they can’t dialogue with men about it…that’s an example of where some churches take it too far.

We’ll talk about this more next week, but we see that the woman Phoebe is a deacon…that’s like a ministry leader who organizes ministries

And we have a ton of amazing women leading and organizing large ministries at this church.

Women leaders run our children’s ministry with over 400 kids every Sunday,

Women run our middle school youth ministry, our café, our library, our massive outreaches (like family fun day & the egg hunt)

Many of our most significant staff leaders are women, including our Executive Director, Rachel Cheney, who is #2 on our org chart of our staff here

And I’ll tell you even most egalitarian churches don’t have that.

But that role not a pastor/elder role…it’s organizational leadership.

All we’re doing is trying to be obedient to what the Bible says about the role of elder/pastor, but beyond that we have women in every other significant area of leadership

And let me say, if this message has been hard for you, and you’re like, “Ugh! I thought I liked this church, but now I don’t know anymore!”

Let me tell you, this is not a change for our church. Nothing is different. This is how it’s always been.

So if you liked this church up until 5 minutes ago, I would caution you not to overreact.

This topic is not a big deal for our church. Ask anyone who’s been here.

It’s not a primary doctrine for us

So much so that this is honestly the first message I’ve ever directly preached on this topic, and I’m 750 messages in at Renovation Church.

You’re not going to experience anything different here than what you already have before.

We’ve just merely come to a passage on this topic, and it’s my job, whether I like it or not, or am comfortable not, to explain to you what our passages says.

And so listen, let me end with where I started.

Even if this all feels foreign to our culture, what we read and studied today is God’s Word

And it was given for our good. And it is good.

Let me pray.